“Our Lady says that we cannot consider ourselves as true believers, if we do not see Jesus Christ in every single person we meet.”
The following is from a transcript of a question and answer session, given by Mirjana in the Oasis of Peace in Medjugorje, on October, 3, 2009.
Mirjana: We will start our meeting with one Hail Mary. Queen of Peace, Pray for us.
We have gathered so that you may ask whatever you may be interested in. Anything that can help you to understand Medjugorje, and if I know, I will be so glad to respond to you because I desire with my entire heart that you may understand what Our Lady desires from us. The first thing is, she invited you. She needs apostles. That’s why feel free to ask anything that can help you.
Q: Yesterday’s message was very serious and very sad. Can you elaborate a little bit?
[The message was: “Dear Children, as I look at you, my heart seizes with pain. Where are you going my children Have you sunk so deeply into sin that you do not know how to stop yourselves?You justify yourselves with sin and live according to it. Kneel down beneath the Cross and look at my Son. He conquered sin and died so that you, my children, may live. Permit me to help you not to die but to live with my Son forever. Thank you!”]
Message was very sad, and you were lucky because you did not have a chance to see the expression on Our Lady’s face, so that your heart breaks. Because she is mother, and as she said in one of her messages, she desires to bring all of us as the most beautiful bouquet of flowers to her Son. Once she realizes that we do not see, we do not understand that, she is the way she was yesterday. Talking about her message, I have no right to comment on the message because I received it the same way you did. Same like you, I also have to reflect on message in order to understand what it tells me. But I would like to ask you one thing. Yesterday when I talked with some people about message, most people said “When shall this world change, when shall the world understand?” But no one said, “When shall I understand? When shall I change myself?” I am only asking from all of you to start from ourselves to see where we make mistake and what we can change. Once we change, it will be easier to change others, not always put the blame on others. We should start with ourselves.
Q: She said her heart was seizing?
I also say that my heart seizes when I see her so sad. Our Lady had a very sad expression on her face, filled with pain because she was looking at us and we know what she was able to see within us.
Q: Do you always see her or sometimes just hear her voice?
On the second of every month, I have normal apparition. I can hear her, and I can see her.
Q: There are groups around saying we can go to heaven through other religions. How does Jesus see that? How does Mary see that?
When Our Lady asked me to pray for unbelievers, then my question was, “Who are unbelievers?” and she said, “All those who do not feel church as home and God as their Father.” If you look at Our Lady’s messages further, Holy Mass is in the first place, and then Confession, Communion, etc., which is part of the Holy Catholic Church. But is not me who is supposed to decide. I can only repeat what Our Lady says. Very often she would say we can possess anything in this world, but if we do not have peace we have nothing. And the only true peace is the one my Son gives.
Q: How can I be a true apostle to others?
If you live Our Lady’s messages, and if you follow her, it means you are walking up to Jesus. And then your life will be story. Others will see in you what they are looking for, because Our Lady doesn’t want us to preach. I’m not talking about priests here (points to a row of priests and laughs), but she would like from us to talk with our own life, so that every unbeliever can see that something within ourselves. What did I mean about that? Let me give you a cute example from a very little thing.
I was here at evening Mass in Medjugorje. I couldn’t sit down, and I have a problem with my back. I noticed a little space in one of those benches, and I sat down. But all around were Italians (laughter), and all of them started yelling at me, “Stand up! That is our bench. We were first one to come, etc.” I stood up and kept quiet. Later a lady who recognized me was passing by, and then after that they wanted to give me the whole bench to sit. But why am I saying this?
Imagine if I were an unbeliever, and for the first time I desire to enter into a Catholic church to see what is that all about. And Catholics, who say they know the love of God welcome me in that way. Would I ever enter again there? And whose responsibility would that be? That is what Our Lady says, that we have a great responsibility. Only love. That is the answer to everything. Our Lady says that we cannot consider ourselves as true believers, if we do not see Jesus Christ in every single person we meet. That is the hardest thing, but we have to reach that point.
Q; Have you received a message from Our Lady about forces fighting wars?
That is already question you are supposed to ask from a priest, because I am just a visionary, and I can only say what Our Lady says to me. I do not know anything else. I as a visionary also ask help from a priest, because I am just like you.
Q: Has the question been asked?
Q: Isn’t it selfish to just petition for ourselves to change?
I do not pray for myself. I pray for my family, but I only say, “My family in your hands.” I just say, “We in your hands because You (God) know what is the best for us,” when I pray. I pray the most for unbelievers because that is where we all are.
Q: When we are trying to change ourselves according to our Mother’s messages, what about the little nagging self doubts we have?
My personal opinion, we can always do better, we can always be better people, we can always pray better, and we grow in that. I always recommend to everybody, do not waste your time judging yourself in your own prayer. Pray and God will help you. Sometimes you just feel like you prayed great, sometimes not, but Our Lady always offers her hand as Mother, and she will always raise you up. Do not forget, God is love, and He loves you and He knows you, and it is important that you desire to come closer to Him, and He will help you.
Q: I have a hard time saying the rosary. Would you help us to know when you are praying the rosary, are you supposed to think of the words? My mind wanders while I’m doing that.
Our Lady asks from us to pray with heart. I understand that to mean that every word that comes out of my mouth would pass through my heart first. So, if I say, “Hail Mary,” then I truly with heart greet Mary. “Full of grace,” that I may feel within myself how much grace Our Lady gives me and to everyone. It is never a repetition for me, because I always feel some new, different things when I pray “Hail Mary.” For example, when I reflect on Our Lady was assumed into heaven, I think about her. I talk with her. I ask her about how she felt, all that she thought. I do not see her, I do not hear her, but just with heart. Try that. If your thoughts still wander, put the rosary aside and talk with Our Lady, and tell her why is that so, what is a burden, why you can’t be still and pray. Whatever you have in your heart, give it to her.
Q: When Jesus said, “Many are called but few are chosen,” I’m not quite sure what He meant by that.
Mirjana smiled and said, We could talk this whole afternoon about what He meant. I like to talk a lot, but if we start this topic now we will never end! You said it. Many are called, few are chosen. What do you think why that is so, because Jesus said that to me and to you, so everyone has his own opinion about it. Even here, everyone is invited, but how many will understand and how many of them will become true apostles? I do not know.
Q: What did Our Lady mean when she said this is a time of grace?
Isn’t this a great grace? This immense love of God to send us His mother for so many years, to understand and to take the right path. Doesn’t that show how much God loves us?
Q: Have you or any of the other visionaries ever met with the Holy Father?
It was me. Others were jealous. (laughter) I was in St Peter’s Basilica in Vatican with all other pilgrims. I was with an Italian priest. So Pope was walking by, and he was blessing. He blessed me and just passed by. The priest with me said, “Holy Father, this is Mirjana from Medjugorje,” and he came back and blessed me again. Then he left. And I said to priest, most likely he thought just I just need a double blessing (laughter). In the afternoon, we received a note to go to Castelgondolfo, close to Rome, the next day. And me and him were alone together, and among other things he said to me, “I know everything, I have been following everything. Ask pilgrims to pray for my intentions. Keep Medjugorje because Medjugorje is the hope for the entire world.”
A priest told me that from the very beginning, Pope was very fond of Medjugorje, because two months before the apparitions in Medjugorje started, Pope was praying to Our Lady to come again on earth. He said I cannot do it all alone because Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Poland etc., all communist, I cannot do it on my own. I need you. And later he heard that in Yugoslavia, communist country, in a little village, Our Lady appeared and he said that is response to my prayers.
Q: Mirjana, how beautiful is Our Mother?
That is not only superficial beauty that you see from outside. That is something that is radiating out of her. As children, we asked Our Lady a childish question. We said, “How come that you are so beautiful?” She said “I am beautiful because I love.” And she said, “My children, if you want to be that beautiful, then love.” At that time when that apparition happened, Jakov was only nine and a half years old. So when Our Lady left, he said, “I think that she wasn’t saying the truth.” We all said, “How can you dare to say that our heavenly Mother is not saying the truth?” He said, “Yes, but look at us visionaries. Some of us can love until the end of our lives, but we’ll never be as beautiful as she said,” because he did not understand what kind of beauty Our Lady was speaking about. But even today he doesn’t understand many things. (laughter)
Q: Before Our Lady comes, do you have dream or some other feelings?
I never dream of Our Lady, never. Usually that is something that you get excited about during the day, that’s what you dream, but I never dreamed of Our Lady. I always prepare myself the day before by fasting and prayer, and night before apparition, I spend in prayer. So then I cannot dream! I don’t think of anything else, because it is impossible. I just desire to pray, because only that way I will have peace, and only that way I am capable to wait until tomorrow to come. I think it is all God’s help, because without God’s help, we would not be able to live a normal life. Let me give you an example. I’m a mother, and I have two daughters, and as every normal mother, I would give my life for them, but when I am with Our Lady, my daughters do not exist. There is only great desire that she would take me with her. You can only try to imagine what a pain it is when Our Lady leaves. I simply do not even have strength to keep a pencil or pen in my hand. Thanks be to God for Miki, he writes it down, and I just go straight to my room to pray. Then I pray for one hour, two or three, depends. And through this prayer, God gives me the strength to understand, and to go forward.
Q: When you say you pray, is it always the rosary or talking?
It is rosary, seven Our Fathers, talking, but I always pray rosary of St. Anthony, because he is my dearest saint (lots of people went “Ahh”), because St. Anthony is the only saint that you can make deals with (laughter), “You do that for me and I’ll do that for you.”
Q. Mirjana, how come you didn’t become a nun?
At the very beginning when we were children, we asked Our Lady, what do you desire from us, from our life? She said whatever you feel in your heart. If you decide to be priest or nun, I desire that it is visible that I was with you. And if you decide to have families, I desire that you try your best to be an example to the other families. And that is all she ever said about my personal life. Everybody asks me that. Then I read about Bernadette to see what happened to her. She didn’t want at all to become a nun, but they forced her to. But we live in a different time now, and so we were not forced to.
Q: What does Our Lady says abut division in families? (question not completely audible)
I believe that Our Lady doesn’t have to talk about it, because if you keep the vow before God…Here, when we get married in the church, we put our right hand on the Cross so that God may help me, so there’s no divorce. If it’s good, then thanks be to God. If not, then just take your cross, because you cannot be only partially Catholic. You are or you are not. Saddest thing is we Catholics try to justify things that cannot be justified. We are or we are not. We follow Jesus or we do not follow him.
Q: What is it like for you to be present at another visionary’s apparition, for example, Jakov at Christmas?
I never, that would be too painful knowing what he is looking at and I cannot. While he is having apparition for example, I will pray in my room and (anyway) he would be teasing me afterwards! (laughter)
Q: So divorce is not acceptable?
Of course. Husband can leave wife and wife can leave husband, but she is his wife, and he is her husband. If my husband for example leaves me, I would not be able to look for another husband, because he is my husband before God. What God binds once, only He can separate. I cannot force my husband to be with me but even if he leaves, he still remains my husband.
Q: And annulment?
Pointing to a row of priests Mirjana says, “Here is the priests!” (laughter). I am not planning to divorce, that’s why I am not interested in annulments. I know that if you did not tell about some illness you may have, or if you do not want to have children, it could be an excuse. Then Church will give you an annulment, if that’s the case, as far as I’ve heard, but I never questioned too much about it. After a pause and with a broad grin she added: But if I get interested in that, then I will ask (laughter).
Q: Do your children know what is happening and how do they react to all of that?
They are 18 and 15 years old, and they know very well what’s happening. Me and Marko always tried to bring them closer to God, ever since they were born. We thought if they have a sense of God’s love, they will understand the apparitions. Then we explained to them that from time to time Our Lady chooses some people, not because they are the best, but because in that moment, she needs such people. And they look at me as a normal person. We all ..(inaudible) ..only God. That is the way they …(inaudible)..When I talked about responsibility of parents, our children look at our own life. Some example of my older daughter Maria. When she was about two years old, I did not talk to her about apparitions, because I thought she is too young to understand. But one day while she was playing with her friend in the room, I was watching over. Then I heard this other girl say, “You know my mum drives a car.” My daughter Maria remained quiet for a moment and said, “A big deal, my mum talks to Our Lady every day.” So without even saying a word, she understood.
Q: Emotionally speaking, if you had to use one word to describe how you feel when you in the presence of the Mother of God, what word would you use?
That is heaven. They ask me did I see heaven and I say I did not see heaven, but to be with Our Lady is to be in heaven. They ask me, “Did you touch her, did she touch you?” I never even felt a need to do that, because when she is looking at you, she is embracing you and kissing you. You simply feel you don’t want it ever to stop. The greatest love on earth, beside love for God, is love for your children. Imagine when you do not even think about your children. You forget that they exist. Only Our Lady so she may look at you. I think that would be like in heaven.
Q: What lesson are we supposed to learn from fasting?
Again, I can just tell you my own personal opinion. When I’m fasting, I’m proving to myself that I am the boss of my own body and that I can do for God anything I want. That nothing can stop me. And with this fasting, I’m showing to God that with this little, I am ready to do even more, if that is what He desires. Through fasting, my prayer is stronger. I feel closer to Him. Again, that’s just my own personal feelings.
Q: Has Our Lady said anything about Garabandal?
Only about Fatima. She said, “What I have started in Fatima I will finish in Medjugorje. My heart will triumph.” I cannot go into details. That’s the only apparition she mentioned, aside from Medjugorje.
Q: Some of you visionaries have public apparitions, and some of you have private. Does Our Lady give that to you as a choice?
There is no private apparitions, because Our Lady doesn’t come (just) to me or Jakov or Maria, she comes to the entire world. Let’s take Ivan as an example. He has the apparitions in the Chapel, and then not everybody can fit in, so he does like one day for priests, one day for families, one day for sick people, so that everyone can more or less fit in. I never had any private apparitions. I do not even know what it means.
Q: Is there conflict with the Bishop here? What is that about?
The greatest authority is Pope, and the way Pope says, everybody should obey. The latest commission we had here in Medjugorje was before the war, that was when the war started, that was when the Bishops’ conference of ex-Yugoslavia said that pilgrims are allowed to come to Medjugorje, that priests will accept them and they will provide masses for them, confessions etc. But decision about whether Medjugorje is authentic or not, that will take time. The latest thing is that Medjugorje simply went outside the frame of our Diocese and that it will go into hands of Vatican.
Q: Is it like a suffering for Mary to come on the earth, for us not to be converted?
It’s not painful. She is mother. You are young, most likely you are not married? (questioner replies, “No”) Once you have your own children, no matter what they do, you will run after them and try to help them because that is mother. Same as with Our Lady.
Q: On your last daily apparition, I read that you had a long conversation with Our Lady about heaven?
We were talking about secrets. That was my last daily apparition, that is when Our Lady gave me that last secret, and then she explained that I wasn’t to have her daily apparitions anymore. And she explained to me the way I’m going to have them now (from then onwards), and on that apparition, Christmas 1982, we did not talk about heaven. On one occasion, I asked Our Lady, “How come God is love, and He loves us so much, and He put some people for eternity in hell?” She said it is not God who decided that. It is people who decided to go there. I do not think I talked about anything else with Our Lady. Maybe you read about Marija or Vicka.
Q: This question concerned a marriage partner being an unbeliever. The actual question, although just audible, was posed by someone whose English was not clear.
I think you forgot, I am just a visionary. It’s usually like (this) that husband is unbeliever. That is why God put her husband in her way, so he is her responsibility. She needs to help him to come to know God and God’s love, not through criticizing, judging or forcing, but simply through her love, her example, and her prayer. That is the only way.
Q: Did Our Lady ever share with you about what is the more terrible sin?
She didn’t talk with me what is greater or lesser sin, but only what we should do to avoid sin. And she didn’t tell me about which sin is more or less. What comes to my mind right now, for me personally, the greatest sin is not to have love towards your neighbour. Because when you have love for your neighbour, you will not kill, you will not steal, you will not deceive. You will not do anything bad because you will have love within you. That is what I personally think.
Q: How did you convince your family to follow you?
I lived with my parents in Sarajevo, and I came to spend summer vacation here. I’m always kidding with visionaries when I say Our Lady was waiting for me to come (laughter). So when apparitions started, my aunt called my mum by phone, and she didn’t know how to tell that to her. My mother thought that I am in hospital, that I’m dying but my aunt said, “No, its not about that! She just says that she sees Our Lady.” My mother said, “Is she normal to you?” (laughter). My aunt said, “She looks the same like before.” Then mum said, “There must be something happening with her.” They came right away from Sarajevo. Who knows you the best? Your parents. So they were with me from the beginning. They helped me. As I told you, I was not from here. I was forced to go back to Sarajevo right away, and then I had hardest time. Because here, all around we have Catholics and Croats. In Sarajevo very few Catholics, most are Muslims or Orthodox. It wasn’t my choice to go back to Sarajevo. As we lived in Sarajevo, every single day, police was in our home. It was terrible time for years, and my father just told me, “You just go on, say the truth, be not afraid, God will help us.” And that is how it truly was. God helped us, but it wasn’t easy. There was only me, my mother, father and brother, and everybody else separated from us, because it wasn’t good to be with us in communism. I was only fifteen years old, and I was state enemy, and then out of fear, no one wants to be close to you.
Q: Why do you think the Virgin Mary chose you as a visionary?
Can’t you see? (laughter). I’ve been talking for an hour, and you ask me that question! (laughter). Mirjana said in English I’m joking, I’m joking.”
If you desire to be an example to unbeliever, if you desire to show that you have faith, that we have love, then you have to smile. You have to joke, you have to show that you have God. If you’re always worried, nervous, serious, then an unbeliever will say, “She’s not any different to me. Why would I change?” That’s why I prefer to joke. Why did Our Lady choose me? On one occasion, we asked her, why six of us, because we were the same as every other child here. All she said was because I need you six the way you are. And all six of us are different individuals. Only Our Lady could put us together. I always remember words of late Fr Slavko, a priest who passed away on the Cross Hill. He was my husband’s uncle. He was coming to our home all the time. One day he came very upset, and I said “What happened, what made you angry?” He said, “How can you ask me something like that, for if I were Our Lady, I would never choose six of you. For me the greatest sign that Our Lady is truly present here is the fact that she chose six of you.” Because poor Fr Slavko, for six months he tried to gather six of us together at same time. He didn’t make it!
Q: What has Our Lady said about purgatory?
Our Lady is asking from us to put in our daily prayers the souls in purgatory and to offer Masses for them, not to go to the rectory, not to pay for the Mass, but to be present during that Holy Mass and to pray during that Holy Mass.
Q: Does Our Lady ever discuss war?
Q: Why are we not allowed to know the secrets until a certain time?
That is God’s will. I never think about secrets. I don’t even think about it, because it is dear God who keeps the secrets and His will be done. For example this morning, I spoke to Italians. Maybe you saw there was thousands of them! (laughter). Any every question they asked started with why, why, why, why this, why that, waving their hands. Then I said to them, “You know why Our Lady did not appear in Italy, but in Croatia?” And they said again, “Why?” (laughter). I said, “If she appeared in Italy, she would run away after third day (laughter), because it would always be ‘Why, why, why?’” Whatever she said, we just accepted it the way it is. I never said, “Why,” because whatever Our Lady says, that is for our good, and it is not up to me to ask why.
Q: Our Lady gave you her autobiography?
Q: When will that be shared with us?
Mirjana just smiled and replied, Ask Vicka.
Q: What can you do to help people who live different lifestyles to change their lives?
I would just pray for them. I put them in God’s hands, and I pray for them, because I feel sorry for them, because they simply go against the nature, and nature was created by God, so that it means you go against God. Everything what you are doing with your heart will help. It’s important that you doing with your heart. It’s beautiful that you are worried for them so much. That means that you love your neighbour, and I’m glad that there is no judgment in your words, only love. And that is what Our Lady desires from us, not to judge but to love them and to pray for them.
Q: Has your husband ever doubted your word?
He would not remain alive if he doubted (laughter). My husband comes from a Catholic family. He’s Fr Slavko’s nephew. The two of us grew up together. We know each other from birth. He said when the apparitions started, as soon as they told me that you are involved, I believed immediately. Because we know each other from birth. I was a good girl! (laughter) Let me give you an example. In Sarajevo, we Catholic children would secretly go to the catechism. It would always be one mother who would take four or five of us. I was about six years old. My mum told me, “If someone along the way stops you and ask where are you going, tell them that we are going to have an ice-cream or something else.” And one particular day, my teacher who was communist, was walking by and she asked me, “Where have you been ?” I was supposed to lie to her. I looked at her and said “I truly have no idea where I have been.” (laughter). I couldn’t say I was shopping or buying an ice-cream or something, so the best way was to say I didn’t know.
We will finish now. We’ll finish with “Hail Mary,” and we have so many priests with us, they didn’t help me so much with questions, (laughter) but they can still give us blessing.